Drunken GChats About Gay Stuff With Two Gay Guys #2
MADISON: Could you date someone who was like, they’re a total bottom or a total top?
SHAWN: I think, for me personally, right now I’m not so sure. I’m still exploring and I want to be able to try both. I do think if it were a really great guy I adored, I would make it work.
MADISON: Oh come on! That is such a diplomatic response!!! Like have you never seen a guy before and you either thought, “OMFG I want him to pound me/I want to pound him?”
SHAWN: Oh for sure, I would let Dave Franco do unspeakable things to my ass. So I definitely lean one way.
MADISON: Aahahahah!!! We might have to fight? A TC-sponsored Dave Franco three way?
SHAWN: I’m down for that haha.
MADISON: Did you see that HuffPost Live segment I sent you? The one about Tops and Bottoms maybe being an outmoded thing?
SHAWN: I did! I didn’t know Noah was on that. He was in BOYS with us (shameless plug) but I thought it was very interesting. I have literally had friends tell me, “You’re such a bottom” when I do something more “feminine,” as if that is suppose to insult me. There is such a stigma behind what role you play. I get called “pretty boy bottom” a lot too, as if being less masculine looking also dictates your role between the sheets.
MADISON: Well, for the record, I think femme tops are hot, so that’s definitely a thing. As if dating in the gay world needed to be any more difficult, now we have to wonder if our dicks are going in the right places. I think it’s really sexy when someone knows exactly what they want, like they only want to take dicks up the ass or they only want to put their dicks inside of asses. Fun for all + everybody knows what to do! It doesn’t mean those roles can’t change, depending on who you’re with or how you’re feeling. And there are also a shit ton of gay dudes out there who don’t do the butt sex.
SHAWN: Maybe I am so against that just because I am automatically assumed to be a bottom because I’m small. Men will literally flip me over without even bothering to have a conversation about it. At that point I need to fuck you just to prove a point. I’ve had boys tell me, “We’re both bottoms, it would never work,” and that is a little crushing because it paints me one way sexually. I will admit that a man who is physically bigger than me is very appealing, so I have some definitive bottom leanings.
MADISON: OWN IT. Tops are so hot. Speaking of hot ass tops…TOM DALEY. Gay dudes are like obsessed with him. They want to have like 10,000 of his babies. I don’t get the appeal. I look at him and I get that he’s attractive and cute and what not, but he’s not my type at. all. Good for him for coming out though!
SHAWN: I thought it was interesting just how people reacted to him coming out. Yes, it is amazing that he came out and is happy and all that, but I just am always stupidly surprised by how excited people get about celebrities coming out. I genuinely wonder how long it will take before things like this stop being “news.” I wonder when things like this will be non-sequiturs. Whether Tom Daley is gay or straight or whatever probably doesn’t affect the way he swims/ my chances of him laying me.
MADISON: We always want to feel like we’re not “alone,” you know? Celebrities are our superheroes + the people we fantasize about and masturbate to, so knowing one of them is gay makes everything more exciting. I was so excited when Matt Bomer came out. Every time I see a picture of him I am like for the love of Astroglide please be a top. I worked on a photo shoot once with him and I ordered his salad. He like spoke words to me and I wrote them down.
SHAWN: Is he even more gorgeous in person?
MADISON: Ugh…
SHAWN: I suppose I understand the appeal from that perspective. I also think that right now IS the time for us to be excited about these things. Growing up I would wear my mom’s high heels and insist on people calling me Tonya.
MADISON: YAAASSSSS!!!
SHAWN: I can’t recall a single gay character on television in my early years that influenced me. The first celebrity I remember coming out and it being a huge scandal was Clay Aiken. I didn’t have very many men/ women in the media who were queer to be my role-models. If I did, my parents probably kept that far away from me anyways.
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MADISON: It’s really a brave thing to come out on YouTube — Tom’s video has been seen 6.4 million times since yesterday. I can’t imagine what it would be like to be 15 or 16 or 14 and announce to the world that I’m gay. I’m only half out to my family. My close cousins know but I have yet to talk about it with my parents. But I kind of don’t care what those people think. I’m really close with my grandmother and I’m worried that if she knew I was gay it would kill her. My cousin is getting married and wanted me to be in her wedding party. She floated the idea to Grandma Moore that I could be a “Bridesman” and Grandma lost her shit. But she has to know I like dicks, because one time she found a gay porn on VHS in my room and WATCHED IT. I told her it was for a class project lololol.
SHAWN: MADISON! I remember my parents going through their parental software over three times and finding gay porn on there. I would just cry and say, “I was just curious.” Each time, my dad would hug me and tell me if I need to go to therapy, they would be willing to do that for me. My dad makes the most light-hearted jokes about me being gay. I love my mom, I do, but one of the first things she said to me when I came out was, “I just don’t want you becoming toogay,” like, mom, I take dicks up the ass and love men, it doesn’t get much gayer than that. Even to this day if I do something more a-typically gay she’ll side-eye the fuck out of me. I remember crying myself to sleep because I was so afraid my life would be ruined when I came out. People are kicked out of their homes, and they’re cut off financially for being who they are.
MADISON: But see, here’s the beauty of being gay. Gay people get to make our own families, through friends, relationships, support groups, school, whatever. We have to make and create our own sense of community. The problem with being gay is almost always about being too gay. I didn’t have many gay role models when I was growing up, either. I remember Will and Grace was a thing, but you had the ultra faggy one and then you had the rational, masculinized doctor-y one. Ugh, so typical. We never see gay men on television unless they are queens, closeted or sex addicts. That’s why coming out is so hard on our loved ones, because the only gay they know is probably one of those characters they see on TV. And god forbid Barbara’s son turns into a cock gobbling queen whose primary talent is putting together amazing outfits!
SHAWN:Do you ever notice how gay men seem to gravitate towards others who look like them? Sometimes I’m not sure if i’m looking at a couple or fraternal twins that fuck.
MADISON: Which…also hot. But yeah, I think about this ALL the time. I feel like gay guys are really afraid to step outside of their comfort zones and find some kind of perverse safety in dating cum-copies of themselves. I see couples that have the same hair, the same tan, the same jeans, the same everything. So basically you only want to fuck yourself? Isn’t that kind of/really narcissistic?
SHAWN: Some of it probably does stem from that. I think sometimes we are so caught up in the pressures of vanity that the gay community and media places on us, it feels safer to gravitate towards people that reassure us we’re hot because we look like them– if that makes sense?
MADISON: That is such a cop out.
SHAWN: I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just guessing that may be people’s subconscious thought process.
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MADISON: Could be, I suppose. I would really love to hear someone defend why they date people who are exactly like them. We all do this, because any kind of relationship — friendship, bf/gf, fuckbuddyship + what have you — has to have a connection, something that links you.
SHAWN: I think there are so many subconscious layers that probably go through someone’s mind when they find themselves attracted to cookie-cutter versions of themselves, but I suppose at a most basic level it is just about affirmation and self-vanity. We like seeing ourselves out there, we like looking at ourselves.
MADISON: Gay narcissism, totally. And gay male culture is probably one of the most image-centric subcultures out there. Be tan, be white, be muscled, don’t be too femme, appear upper middle to upper class, and so on.
SHAWN: Someone recently contacted me to talk about “it gets better, unless you’re fat,” which I found really disheartening. We’re already so factioned off from what people would consider “normal” and yet we heap on these other attributes we have to possess before we’re accepted by the gay community as “hot.”
MADISON: It’s true. Perceived hotness in gay male culture is often if not always about body size, race, all of that. It is hard for anyone who doesn’t fit into prescribed definitions of “hotness” to find a place for themselves, but that’s what I mean when I say that gays get to create their own family units. There are also age discriminations, too. 20 or 25 year old guys who are like, “No one over 26 pls k thx bye.” Ah yes, but that 20 or 25 year old is going to be 40 or 50 one day and preying on 20 and 25 year olds, so the whole system is basically fucked.
SHAWN: Men are now waking up at 50 and realizing “Fuck, I have nothing in common with this 19 year old I’m chasing after.” I think we need to loosen our physical constraints and open ourselves up to the possibility of connecting with people who aren’t exactly what we have in our minds as our perfect man.
MADISON: Wait, so who’s your perfect celebrity man? Mine is DEFINITELY Cole Mohr omg. Just typing his name aloud gives me heart palpitations and a boner, Jesus lord help me.
SHAWN: I have to admit that I have a raging fan-boy boner for Dave Franco…So, Dave, if you’re reading this. Call me.
MADISON: 1-800-555-BOTTOM.